Comments on: Getting Your Trinity Right (or: in Defense of CC) https://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/2013/08/getting-your-trinity-right-or-in-defense-of-cc/ Journeys and Musings of an Ex-Hardcore Raider Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:48:18 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.2.17 By: pkudude99 https://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/2013/08/getting-your-trinity-right-or-in-defense-of-cc/#comment-24900 Tue, 13 Aug 2013 22:48:18 +0000 http://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/?p=2799#comment-24900 EQ2 has the Enchanter and Coercer, and I played Coercer as my main for quite a while, so I got to watch as CC changed from a must-have thing for dungeons and raids, to something completely ineffective as nearly every mob became immune, to getting reworked into a “not really *required* but very nice to have thing, but then since we figured out ways to use it to solo dungeons then it got nerfed back that all boss mobs in dungeons and a ton of overland ones couldn’t be charmed or CC’d again, and then in raids everything was immune again to boot, so. . . . .

I’ve not played EQ2 in a couple of years, so I have no idea of the current state of CC. During the time where it was useful before being re-nerfed, the whole “green won’t hit CC’d mobs” vs “Blue will hit CC’d mobs” mechanic came about, and most groups were fine with not breaking mez. Until CC got nerfed and AE damage went through the roof and mez got basically removed from your hotbar. Stuns were still well liked, but no more mez.

Still and all, even when I stopped playing, it was very definitely a case of “If I can control it, I will kill it. Might take a while, but I will do it!” At least until some moron tried to jump in and help. . . lol.

In the newer “action oriented” mmo combat style, I do find some classes have okay CC, but as you said — no class is a master of it, and the few CC powers that do exist are very short, so only extremely situationally useful.

That said — I love the Control Wizard in Neverwinter. It’s more dps than CC, but still enough CC that vs any controllable mob is much like vs the EQ2 coercer — if I can control it, I can kill it.

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By: HarbingerZero https://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/2013/08/getting-your-trinity-right-or-in-defense-of-cc/#comment-24793 Mon, 12 Aug 2013 18:02:11 +0000 http://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/?p=2799#comment-24793 I wrote long long ago that the real trinity should be nothing more than CC, Heal, and DPS. Tanking and aggro is nothing more than an artificial mechanic to simulate more damage, after all.

Now you can unhitch the classes from their stereotypes and enjoy the freedom of classes done fundamentally differently.

Or better yet – follow DnD 4th edition – instead have Leaders, Protectors, Strikers, and Controllers. Protectors debuff, leaders buff, strikers handle single mobs well, and controllers manipulate the terrain/space. What a group that would make!

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By: flosch https://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/2013/08/getting-your-trinity-right-or-in-defense-of-cc/#comment-24663 Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:54:33 +0000 http://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/?p=2799#comment-24663 I dunno, I think CC worked pretty well in EQ, and that was all open world.

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By: Swoo https://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/2013/08/getting-your-trinity-right-or-in-defense-of-cc/#comment-24662 Sun, 11 Aug 2013 20:48:17 +0000 http://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/?p=2799#comment-24662 Well you need to stop mobs from being alone or in duos and have party of mobs, with their own healers and CCs.

This work a lot better in instanced games like GW1.

Bit harder in open world games.

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By: flosch https://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/2013/08/getting-your-trinity-right-or-in-defense-of-cc/#comment-24376 Fri, 09 Aug 2013 05:57:21 +0000 http://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/?p=2799#comment-24376 I totally agree on the first point. I don’t want to blame all DPS, there are many DPS players I know who were/are very aware and appreciative of group mechanics and specific (I was and still sometimes am one myself, after all! ;)). Of course, those are often those that don’t mind doing some non-DPS work anyway…

I’m not sure whether it’s really that hard to balance CC. I think it’s important how long you can shut down mobs while they are attacked (stuns). That’s of course a very powerful ability, and most CC classes I know don’t give you long stuns for good reasons. Mez abilities (by which I mean CC, but only until damage taken) is a lot less problematic. I don’t believe it’s that hard to balance by scaling how long CC lasts and how many mobs you can CC at the same time. Or by how fast mobs regen under CC. Throw in non-CC-able mobs every now and then (like one or two in a group, or something like that), and you also prevent CC classes being overpowerhouses that can solo better than everybody else.

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By: Jeromai https://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/2013/08/getting-your-trinity-right-or-in-defense-of-cc/#comment-24350 Fri, 09 Aug 2013 01:41:37 +0000 http://randomwaypoint.fajs.de/?p=2799#comment-24350 I blame the players who can’t grasp any “for the team” concept besides DPS MOAR.

CC is also hard to balance. Make it a total shutdown and everyone will just bring sufficient cc to nullify everything into punching bags, no need for tanks and healers. Make it only last a few moments and no one will bother (and complain that cc is worthless.)

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